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Old 02-01-2012, 02:27 AM   #1
buckeye dan
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Exclamation **** Take Our Survey ****

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Old 02-01-2012, 01:44 PM   #2
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i took it and voted no on 3 outta 4 because I AM in favor of the 3 shot law.
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Old 02-01-2012, 02:57 PM   #3
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i took it and voted no on 3 outta 4 because I AM in favor of the 3 shot law.
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

Pistol cartridges reached the limits of their performance envelope years ago. Modern inline muzzle loaders are pushing 3100FPS. Modern sabot technology in shotguns are pushing 2000FPS with a 0 drop in inches at 150 yards. We're already using superior equipment in the field which will never be recalled. The reason for not allowing pistol caliber rifles is obsolete. Advances in technology have seen to that.

Hunting a 1/2 hour after sunset is the best hunting of the day. It is already enjoyed by the archery community. There is still plenty of visible light on a clear day. With light gathering technology in modern optics the target is as visible 1/2 hour after sunset as it is 1/2 hour before dawn which is currently legal to hunt.

The 3 shot rule legitimizes the anti gun claims that there is no purpose for high capacity firearms. It does not apply to handguns which can include an AR-15 pistol chambered in .45 with a 30 round magazine. Desert Eagle handguns with a 14 inch barrel and a 10, 9 or 8 rounds capacity. A Glock with custom barrel in .40 S&W could accommodate 30 rounds and also be legal right now. People are firing 4, 5 or even 6 rounds now by reloading. That removes focus from the target and what is beyond and places it on the act of reloading. Which is more dangerous than the high capacity.

I am sure you had some good reasons though.
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:04 PM   #4
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It sure would be nice to see the results of the poll after you have voted.....
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Old 02-01-2012, 03:20 PM   #5
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So, if people don't answer the way you want you'll explain why they should. Interesting technique!

I agree with EZ.

1. As you stated Dan, there are sufficient weapons available without adding pistol rounds.
2. If hunters are not required to properly ID their target during daylight hours. I certainly don't want them trying to in low light.
3. Three shot rule has been good enough for migratory birds for years. In those ventures you actually can take multiple targets in one pass. Deer must be tagged before a second can be taken. If you can't put a deer on the deck with three rounds I certainly don't want you throwing ten rounds through the timber.

X2 on the results!

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Old 02-01-2012, 03:53 PM   #6
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I was raissed only using three rounds in any shotgun,my dad kept all guns plugged for three shots,Dad always said,if you cant get em with three youre not gonna.I am for pisstol caliber rifles in ohio.
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:57 PM   #7
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Took the survey and agree with the laws they have now just remember you may be responsible but that doesn't make everyone I don't want someone out there throwing lead cause they got 5 or more slugs and up north the ground is to flat for someone to start using a riffle


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Old 02-01-2012, 05:19 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye dan View Post
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.

Pistol cartridges reached the limits of their performance envelope years ago. Modern inline muzzle loaders are pushing 3100FPS. Modern sabot technology in shotguns are pushing 2000FPS with a 0 drop in inches at 150 yards. We're already using superior equipment in the field which will never be recalled. The reason for not allowing pistol caliber rifles is obsolete. Advances in technology have seen to that.

Hunting a 1/2 hour after sunset is the best hunting of the day. It is already enjoyed by the archery community. There is still plenty of visible light on a clear day. With light gathering technology in modern optics the target is as visible 1/2 hour after sunset as it is 1/2 hour before dawn which is currently legal to hunt.

The 3 shot rule legitimizes the anti gun claims that there is no purpose for high capacity firearms. It does not apply to handguns which can include an AR-15 pistol chambered in .45 with a 30 round magazine. Desert Eagle handguns with a 14 inch barrel and a 10, 9 or 8 rounds capacity. A Glock with custom barrel in .40 S&W could accommodate 30 rounds and also be legal right now. People are firing 4, 5 or even 6 rounds now by reloading. That removes focus from the target and what is beyond and places it on the act of reloading. Which is more dangerous than the high capacity.

I am sure you had some good reasons though.
Buckeye Dan, first I do not think there is a any muzzle loader that shoots 3100 fps. second 0-drop at 150 yds may well be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this sight.
So Show me, because you are wrong. Now for the other part of your post I also agree with the three shot rule and to go along with it I do not think handguns should be legal period.
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Old 02-01-2012, 05:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Muskarp View Post
So, if people don't answer the way you want you'll explain why they should. Interesting technique!
It's got nothing to do with what I want. I don't own a pistol caliber rifle. I would like to hunt with one though. I use a smoke pole so the 3 shot capacity limit doesn't apply to me. I have a really nice scope on my crossbow that lets me see in mild darkness with great detail out to 40 yards. It seemed silly not to afford a firearm the same privilege. Their optics are even better. Gun hunters also wear orange. That alone should add a little time to the twilight hours.

I was playing devils advocate by applying logic to the discussion. There is no legitimate reason not to allow pistol caliber rifles. One group of hunters that don't wear orange are already hunting after daylight. The 3 shot rule doesn't apply to anything but long guns.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:05 PM   #10
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Buckeye Dan, first I do not think there is a any muzzle loader that shoots 3100 fps. second 0-drop at 150 yds may well be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this sight.
So Show me, because you are wrong. Now for the other part of your post I also agree with the three shot rule and to go along with it I do not think handguns should be legal period.
http://badbullmuzzleloaders.com/
Quote:
A Bad Bull Muzzleloader will shoot a 275 gr. Jacketed Bullet at a muzzle velocity of 3100 FPS. The 275 gr. Bullet fired at 3100 FPS has over 6000 ft/lbs. of energy at the muzzle. This power is attained through the use of Smokeless Powder and our patented Mag-Prime Ignition System.
http://ultimatefirearms.com/
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Ultimate Firearms makes the BP Xpress, the Ultimate Muzzleloader, the world's best custom muzzeloader. With velocities approaching 2400 feet per second (fps) with a 300 grain bullet (with 200 grains of Pyrodex Pellets), the ability to burn up to 4, 50 grain pyrodex pellets (200 grains!)
Hornady SST Slugs 12 Gauge Trajectory in inches
Muzzle 50 100 150 200
-1.50 2.40 2.70 0.00 -6.70
http://www.hornady.com/store/12-ga-Slug-300-gr-FTX/

Winchester XP3 Elite Sabots 12 Gauge
0 at 100 yards. Not quite as good but close enough.
http://www.winchester.com/Products/s...s/default.aspx

I wonder if there are any gun or bow hunters out there that do not like what you hunt with? If we each had our own special interests catered to then we would cancel each other out and none of us would be hunting with anything.

What we should be doing is supporting each other so that we will always hunt using whatever we like based on sheer numbers. The best way to grow those numbers is with diversity.

I'll explain that position. Some anti hunting people have a real problem with arrows being poked into a deer and waiting for it to die from hemorrhage. If they have their way...Ohio looses 300,000 bow hunters. Knock off the pistol hunters, modern inline guys, smoke poles and what is left? About 150,000 hunters in a state with 11 million people. POOF you don't hunt no more.

You'll never catch me attacking another hunter for using any legal humane method of harvest. In fact I want the opposite.I want more choices in hopes to grow our numbers.
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Old 02-01-2012, 06:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by poloaman View Post
Took the survey and agree with the laws they have now just remember you may be responsible but that doesn't make everyone I don't want someone out there throwing lead cause they got 5 or more slugs and up north the ground is to flat for someone to start using a riffle


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Pistol caliber rifles perform more poorly in most cases than what we are already using and they would be limited to 3 shots. A level shot from shoulder height puts a typical .44 magnum hunting bullet fired from a Henry Rifle into the dirt in under 250 yards. Effective hunting velocities drop off around 150 yards. The 3 shot question is not exclusive to the rifle question. Just a FYI.
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Old 02-01-2012, 09:36 PM   #12
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Nice post, of course I still do not believe the 3100fps but I do own a chrony and only live a few miles from Colmbus with access to a range, so bring it out.
Now to #2 your statment was zero drop at 150 yrds. If you can learn to read your own chart it says 4.20 drop at 150yds.
As far as supporting hunting and fishing I will be glad to compare my checkbook with yours, if it is legal I support it but I do not have to agree with it. I have seen friends I thought were very safe hunters unload a six-shooter in seconds when I watched them shoot the day before and they could not hit a 55 gal drum at 10 yds. (I don't hunt with handgunners).
Bring me a muzzle loader that shoots 3100 fps I will gladly give you a public apology until then you and what ever you read are full of s....;
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buckeye dan View Post
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning.
if you've ever heard a slug (4th shot of the series, from an open field) go cracking thru the tops of the tree youre sitting by while its still dark on opening day of slug season, you might know my reasoning..

if you cant drop a deer with 3 shots (in reality, 1 shot, 2 at the most) you need to go home and watch tv. you are nothing more than an accident waiting to happen.IMO

3100fps muzzleloader, i want one
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Old 02-01-2012, 10:12 PM   #14
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Many times bro, makes me laugh & duck for cover. All I use is the muzzleloader. 1 SHOT 1 KILL BABY !

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Old 02-02-2012, 12:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leupy View Post
Nice post, of course I still do not believe the 3100fps but I do own a chrony and only live a few miles from Colmbus with access to a range, so bring it out.
Now to #2 your statment was zero drop at 150 yrds. If you can learn to read your own chart it says 4.20 drop at 150yds.
As far as supporting hunting and fishing I will be glad to compare my checkbook with yours, if it is legal I support it but I do not have to agree with it. I have seen friends I thought were very safe hunters unload a six-shooter in seconds when I watched them shoot the day before and they could not hit a 55 gal drum at 10 yds. (I don't hunt with handgunners).
Bring me a muzzle loader that shoots 3100 fps I will gladly give you a public apology until then you and what ever you read are full of s....;
Had you read the supplied information you would see the Bad Bull muzzle loader uses 140gr of IMR 4350. That is a magnum smokeless powder. You would have also found the projectile to be a .45 caliber 275gr Parker/Bad Bull Ballistic Extreme bullet. Apparently you don't know how to do the math to achieve muzzle velocity calculations from a 28" barrel based on that recipe.

You could have flipped through any number of reloading manuals looking for similar loads in brass casings and confirmed as well. A .416 Rigby for instance is very close in performance as are all of the .450's. The only difference is chamber pressure and brass. I assure you the Bad Bull is capable of much greater chamber pressures than those recipes and has no brass limitations.

If you were going to do that much reading you probably wouldn't have skipped over the ballistic information of the Hornady SST 12 gauge sabot that I quoted previously. Here is a picture of their label so you don't miss it this time. What does it say the trajectory is at 150yards by the way?
Attached Thumbnails
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Last edited by buckeye dan; 02-02-2012 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:16 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by leupy View Post
Nice post, of course I still do not believe the 3100fps but I do own a chrony and only live a few miles from Colmbus with access to a range, so bring it out.
Now to #2 your statment was zero drop at 150 yrds. If you can learn to read your own chart it says 4.20 drop at 150yds.
As far as supporting hunting and fishing I will be glad to compare my checkbook with yours, if it is legal I support it but I do not have to agree with it. I have seen friends I thought were very safe hunters unload a six-shooter in seconds when I watched them shoot the day before and they could not hit a 55 gal drum at 10 yds. (I don't hunt with handgunners).
Bring me a muzzle loader that shoots 3100 fps I will gladly give you a public apology until then you and what ever you read are full of s....;
I hate to even say this, but he's right about the muzzleloader. We researched these at work just a few weeks ago because one of the guys wanted to buy one.... that is until he saw the $6000.00 price tag!!! They are built on a magnum caliber rifle action. Usually remington or savage. As far as the other stuff, i have no problem with the way the rules are now. I wouldn't vote to change any of them. If you want to rifle hunt, wv. And pa sell non-resident licenses every day.

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Old 02-02-2012, 12:19 AM   #17
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I hate to even say this, but he's right about the muzzleloader. We researched these at work just a few weeks ago because one of the guys wanted to buy one.... that is until he saw the $6000.00 price tag!!! They are built on a magnum caliber rifle action. Usually remington or savage. As far as the other stuff, i have no problem with the way the rules are now. I wouldn't vote to change any of them. If you want to rifle hunt, wv. And pa sell non-resident licenses every day.

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Oh, and they kick like a mule! It's not a matter of only having 1 shot in the gun, most people only have 1 shot in their body!

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Old 02-02-2012, 12:28 AM   #18
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if you've ever heard a slug (4th shot of the series, from an open field) go cracking thru the tops of the tree youre sitting by while its still dark on opening day of slug season, you might know my reasoning..

if you cant drop a deer with 3 shots (in reality, 1 shot, 2 at the most) you need to go home and watch tv. you are nothing more than an accident waiting to happen.IMO

3100fps muzzleloader, i want one
Those are legitimate concerns. For you. I hunt private land in SE Ohio clear cut and hill country that is limited to family and friends. The circumstances you describe don't apply to me. Did you not take into consideration the conditions of other hunters across the state or what? I don't entirely follow you. In hot counties where 5000+ deer are taken each year they move. Smacking a few trees is not uncommon.

Removing the focus of the shooter from the target by forcing them to reload the 4th round is actually more dangerous than if they had the capacity and could stay on target. People are less apt to forget their shooting lanes that way. They can maintain a focus of their target and what is beyond more efficiently too.

You voted down pistol caliber rifles that are technologically capped at 30% to 40% or less performance than what is currently legal. Yet you said "3100fps muzzleloader, i want one". Maybe you didn't intend to hunt with it and I jumped to conclusions?
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:35 AM   #19
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Removing the focus of the shooter from the target by forcing them to reload the 4th round is actually more dangerous than if they had the capacity and could stay on target. People are less apt to forget their shooting lanes that way. They can maintain a focus of their target and what is beyond more efficiently too.

do you actually believe this or are you one of those "always right" guys??
if he needs to shoot a 4th shot, hes already lost focus.
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Old 02-02-2012, 12:37 AM   #20
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I hate to even say this, but he's right about the muzzleloader. We researched these at work just a few weeks ago because one of the guys wanted to buy one.... that is until he saw the $6000.00 price tag!!! They are built on a magnum caliber rifle action. Usually remington or savage. As far as the other stuff, i have no problem with the way the rules are now. I wouldn't vote to change any of them. If you want to rifle hunt, wv. And pa sell non-resident licenses every day.

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One point I guess I am not getting across is we are already rifle hunting. We've converted flint locks into modern inline high powered rifles and we're shooting rifle projectiles with rifle performance envelopes in our shotguns. The pistol caliber rifle is a matter of nostalgia or antique attraction. They can't compete with what we are already using. That doesn't keep me from wanting to use one.

Following that logic we should discard long bows and recurve bows because compounds and crossbows are all we need. Might as well throw flint locks and side hammers under the bus too.
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