hey jim, its funny i just got finished reading the last year on line seminar by you and learned alot, here is my question, when im letting out the rr and i clipped the board and set in on the clicker why is it then 3-4 out of 10 times when i pull it out it is tangled? seems to be tuned fine, and the clicker is plenty of tension. am i doing something wrong?
Without seeing your proceedure for letting out the lure, and how far away from the boat you run the boards, etc., it impossible for me to know what's happening.
I always give the lure a pull before it is out of site to make sure it is not tangled, and after you do that, you need to be careful not to dump that slack line into the lake, because that can tangle the lure.
If the waves are capping, they can roll up a lure, while it's floating on the surface.
I very seldom bring in a tangled lure, but it does happen once in a great while, with no explanation. Ussually when it's a little rough, and I think wave surge can be responsible as well. And if a fish has hit the lure, they can sometimes tangle them.
I'm racking my brain, but 3 or 4 times out of 10, is way too frequent.
Are you doing radical turns, crazy Ivan's, free spooling reels, are trying to impart herky jerky action from the boat?
Tangles are a result of loop or bag of slack line getting to the lure, and slower speeds can add to the possibility of this happening.
This is a good time to say, that it is always a good idea to check rods that have not caught for a while. How often depends on the situation, but even on a slow day, I never let them sit out there and pull for more than an hour. If worms and white perch are involved, it may be 15 minutes.
Sorry that I do not have a clear cut answer. Thanks for the question... even though it was a tuffy.
Last edited by Jim Stedke; 01-23-2012 at 08:35 AM.
I'd say make the effort to check your lures at least every 15-30 minutes. This can be tougher to do as the day drags on. How many times have folks here finished the day, wondering why the bite dropped off, only to find a couple white bass, a half drowned small walleye, and all the rest of your crawlers gone and/or tangled lures or hooks loaded with zebra mussels? Walleyes like baits that smell good, look good and taste good. You wouldn't want to eat a Big Mac that was sitting in dishwater for 2 hours, would ya?
Andy, you wouldn't happen to let your lines out behind the prop-wash do ya? Not saying you do, but, I see guys try that frequently, and I can see the dipsy, harness, plug, whatever, spinning in the breeze (I mean water turb).
Just wanted to say thanks to You for doing this.
I read and reread these threads religuously. Having to drive over 200 miles to fish Erie, the knowledge you offer gives us something to talk about on the way over.
Thanks again to all the OGFer's who contribute to this thread.
Question for you
Last year I started to run Tadpole's verses 2 0z inlines on days when waves were minimal, seemed we took more on the tadpoles, we were running harnesses # 6 coloradoe's. Thoughts?
Coop and Jim,
I was speaking with Craig last fall about the tadpoles and he stated it was expected that Off Shore was coming out with a larger size tadpole better suited for erie this year. I was holding out for these. Not sure what the status of those are but just for your info. Maybe Gary could update us on this.
I know I discussed this at the show with you but can you explain on how you compensate for the length of your leads when you run big boards compared to in-lines. Example, I let out 50 foot to achieve X depth according to the Reef Runner Dive Curve. To achieve the same depth on Big Boards how much more line do I let out keeping in mind that my lines are off the water much higher. Thanks!
Dave, add 10 to 15' to an inline drop length when going to big boards depending on how high the mast is above the water.
Let's say we are using a drop length of 50' with little boards, so we add the 10' and set all 3 lines off big boards at 60'. The outside line will actually be deeper than with inlines, because that release is nearly at the water. The middle line has around 10' of line (from the release to the water) in the air, so it matches the inline board perfectly. The inside rod has 15' or more line in the air, so it's actually shallower than the inline lure would be.
Now to try and compensate for this we could set the outside line at 50' the middle line at 60', and the inside line at 68', but after we catch a fish and reset the lines, we'd be all goofed up (unless it was the inside rod that fired).
So with big boards as you reset the lures down the tow line, the lures actually run slightly deeper. This is only a slight change, and one that can actually help you stay in contact with the fish.
If, after the lines were all firing, you find that only the outside lure fires, you know to drop thing back 10 or 12'.
Conversly, if the inside rod fires 3 times in a row, it a good chance you need to shorten the drop lengths up 15' or so.
One other thing about big boards, we typically run 4 rods on each side, and if the any of the releases have 3 or 4 releases stacked up against them, that lure is not keeping up and needs to be checked. If it is clean, I change it because the fish are telling you they don't like that lure. It may be color or something else, but it's gets the boot either way.
I hope ths clarifies, what I was trying to convey.
The edge is 3 mph. After that they get wilder. And your tune job must be more nearly perfect.
Ideal speeds... 2.3 - 2.7 mph. Fast enough to get that fish catching kick out (horizontal hunting action), but not so fast that they want to spin.
Tuning is a huge deal with Reef Runners and must be done like you success depends upon it (cause it DOES).
Here's a copy paste from last year that spells it out. GO EASY if you are using needle nose pliers and feel it move, you went too far.
Reef Runners have a built in horizontal hunting action. That's kinda like saying they are not going to track perfectly straight and true. A slight variation in speed will often cause the lure to dart left or right momentarily. This is a wonderful trigger for any following fish and frankly I believe it is what makes the lure so effective.
So how do we tune a lure that has a built in horizontal hunting action???
You start with the lure beside the boat at trolling speed, with around 10' of line out. Pull the lure in non-turbulent water and watch to see if wants to hang too far left or too far right. Using needle nose pliers or the Reef Runner lure tuner, bend the line tie in the bill just slightly the opposite way the lure is running. (running left - bend right or the opposite). Keep making TINY adjustments until the lure pulls fairly straight.
Now smoothly pull the lure forward with the rod, such as would happen if the board was coming off a wave. The lure will likely kick right or left. Pull it several times and make tiny adjustments until you get it to kick both left and right about equally.
The secret is to sneak up on the sweet spot, and not rack the line tie back and forth several times. To do so weakens it and yeilds a lure that can't be tuned. If you feel it move … you have gone TOO FAR !!
I will add that if you can't get into undisturbed water beside the boat because of trolling bags, you can let out 30 feet of line or so and slowly retrieve the lure, watching to see which way it wants to veer off, but this obviously adds time to the process.
Over-tuning is the worst thing you can do, so go very easy.
Jim, I remember you posting reports this past summer where you mentioned using an in-line weight with your RR. It was a "leaded" vs "unleaded" technique. Can you use the in-line weight in front of both RR 700 and 800's and is a 6' lead enough of a distance in front of these? Will it alter the action? And what is the formula you use to get a ballpark of the added depth the in-lines will cause? Thanks
We use them ahead of 800s almost exclusively. A 2 or 3 oz wt 6' ahead of the lure has no effect on the action of the lure, and does not bother the fish.
So far as added depth we believe we get around 1' for every 1/4 oz or a 2oz wt gains 8' of depth.
But there is more to it than just added depth. The wt. that close to the lure causes the lure to react to every speed change and turn. The lure drops on inside turns or speed reductions, and raises on outside turns or speed ups. We feel these verticle movements may be as important as the added depth, especially on those days when you think they are following, or are neutral for some reason.
700s are a super high presentaion (unless you are running them behind Dipsys), and if I were trying to add the verticle movement, I'd likely use no more than 1/2 or 3/4 oz wt.
so as not to push the Ripstick too deep.
2 or 3 ozs wouldn't hurt the action of the 700 and if you wanted to run it around 17 - 20' deep, that would be a very good way to do it.
Hope this helps, and thanks for the question.
Last edited by Jim Stedke; 01-24-2012 at 01:49 PM.
I wanted a little info on running Long A (25a) in the spring.I'm new to the crankbait game.
I use 30# braid and I want to run some of the A's. Should I use inline weights,jets or dipsy when I run them? or should I just flat line them w small boards? I know it depends on where the fish are at. Seems like fish are near the 20-27 ft range most times (summer).
I see that 1/4oz will give me 1 ft down on the lure. But if i did a 3oz weight that would get me down an extra 12 feet from what? I have on the rednek chart that 50 ft back would put me at about 24 feet down with 3oz inline.
I just want to get a program together and work on mastering it for the cranks.
I know I sound confused, because I am. lol
I fish the lorain area if that helps.
You did a great job speaking at the boat show also.
i hear people use a dipsy and 700 reef runners where/when would this be used? just not sure how to rig those to be productive and what the benefits would be if you could explain set up and leader length thanks jim
Moke, Wt. assited deep cranks is a warm water presentation (not for Spring). Early Spring (ice out through April) is a time when most fish are caught in the top 15' of the water column (sometimes top 10').
25A Bombers should be run at 15 - 25' behind inline boards.
Deep diving cranks of any kind can not be trolled behind Dipsys at normal Dipsy speeds (like over 1.8 mph).
The foot for every 1/4 oz is added depth from what the dive curve in Pecision Trolling states at summer trolling speeds (around 2 mph).
The Red Neck chart and all chart for inline wts are intended for use with harnesses, and are based on a speed of 1.5 (as they ought to be).
As your speed increases you gain less depth with any type sinker.
In the Lorain area mid May through June are outstanding. And you do not need to go 10 miles out in the lake. 35' of water from Vermilion to Lorain was great last year once the lake cleared, and that's right outside the harbor at Lorain.
Hope this clears things up for you ... if not ask a follow up.
KPI, Ripsticks or any stickbait (short billed crank or minnow lure) behind a Dipsy is a late summer - early fall big fish program for anywhere guys troll for big walleyes.
Not complex at all, just take off the spoon and put on a minnow lure. The same 6' leader is used. The only tricky part is you must add about 10% to your drop length to make up for the added resistance of the lure, and because they pull harder, we only run this program on the down Dipsys (those set at 2 or lower).
The benefit is they may not catch lots of fish, but the ones they catch are good ones.